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Star Wars Comics Meta: Age of the Republic - Qui-Gon Jinn #1 + Darth Maul #1
I wonder, do I gravitate towards Silm fic because it has a much harder time being influenced by moviefic, which I have loved many wonderful pieces of, but would also happily burn to the ground if I could? Or am I just more into those characters these days? /navel gazes
ღ - Current podcast rec: I'm only one episode into the second season of In the Dark but already it's got me hooked and reminds me of why it's one of the best investigative podcasts out there. The case is laid out really well, the interviews are fantastic, and the production values make it so easy to listen to!
ღ - A break from Dark Lord of the Sith and today I'm going to put the first two Age of Republic issues together, since I think they complement each other well. And also 'cause I want to.
Age of Republic: Qui-Gon Jinn #1 - FIRST POST:
There’s a lot of small details that I’m going to yell about that are amazing in this issue, most especially how much Yoda loves his grandkid and encourages him to question things, but first I’m going to get right to the heart of what’s going on here: Qui-Gon is questioning the Jedi’s path, about them being situated on Coruscant instead of some distant world where they’d be even further away from interacting with other people, questioning about how they work for the Senate, questioning how they fight battles.
And, honestly, pretty much all of this lines up with exactly how I see things. Ultimately, being part of the Republic is what dooms the Jedi. Ultimately, being under the jurisdiction of the Senate is what dooms the Jedi. Ultimately, fighting in the clone wars is what dooms the Jedi. Do I think these were missteps? Yeah, of course. But I think this issue also does a solid job of illustrating why those missteps were taken.
We see in the Jedi of the Republic - Mace Windu comic that people don’t understand and fear the Jedi. We see that all throughout The Clone Wars, people fear and misunderstand the Jedi. We see it mentioned several times when the Jedi come up in Star Wars Propaganda. And Yoda himself says it right here:
People fear what they don’t understand. And Qui-Gon’s solution is basically to distance themselves even further from those people? I think it’s pretty safe to say that wouldn’t have worked, either.
And that’s why Qui-Gon can’t find answers by the end of the issue. He goes on his Force-woo journey, he has a bunch of scary visions, and ultimately says, “Violence sows the seeds of the dark side. Unchecked, the Jedi could become that which we fight against.” And the very next page is him going to the Priestess of Wood and telling her that she should go talk to people on Coruscant, should reach out to them and create more allies. To be more connected to this planet of metal. That the whole point isn’t isolating themselves further, but instead working with the system. Not going around unchecked, but instead having a system that helps them stay in their lane and forge allies. (It’s only that the system they’re checked by happens to be in a moral decay spiral.)
The page immediately after his Force-woo vision has him saying:
“You may see it as a city of metal, but there is wisome to be found here. And allies.” This is the conclusion Qui-Gon reaches when he goes on his Force Walk: He ends up with more questions than answers. He has some answers, but not enough to see things clearly. Not enough to clear a path forward. they were all just trying their best ok honestly at the end of the day it wasn't the jedi that needed fixing it was the governmentthe jedi could have been an extraordinary institution under a competent & caring government they just weren't given the chance (via @missmarthanightingale) I’M STILL LAUGHING ABOUT THIS DAYS LATER I AM SO IN LOVE WITH THEIR INTERACTIONS. I KIND OF LOVE HOW MUCH THIS IS SHOWING HOW COMPLICATED QUI-GON’S ROLE IN ALL OF THIS WAS. HOLY SHIT, THE MAUL COMIC WAS AMAZING.
And then the final page with him going back to talk with Yoda, saying, yes, he found some answers (which are apparently, “Coruscant’s not so bad, I guess”) and they talk of how they have to find balance between not bending to the dark side, but still being flexible in how they approach things.
You cannot clip any one piece of conversation out of this issue and take it out of context, because it’s a single story that’s meant to have themes, which means the ending is just as important as the middle (if not more so in some ways) and the ending is that: this is a quandary that doesn’t really have a good answer.
THAT’S THE WHOLE IDEA. THIS IS A QUANDARY THAT DOESN’T HAVE AN ANSWER. There’s no simple, easy answer, no matter how much Force-woo shenanigans Qui-Gon has or how many conversations he has with Yoda. Even in hindsight, knowing how the story goes, we don’t have an answer for how the Jedi could have avoided this.
Leave Coruscant? They’d have been fucked twice as hard, because people feared and mistrusted and misunderstood them even when they were already at the hart of the Republic.
Leave being part of the Republic/the jurisdiction of the Senate? They would be able to help no one, they would have no allies, they would be allies to no one in return.
Stop fighting battles? And instead just let people suffer and die?
That’s it, that’s the whole thing. It’s not that the Jedi didn’t think about this stuff, they clearly did. Obi-Wan questions it fairly often in The Clone Wars, about their greater path. Yoda has several big speeches about it. But there were no other answers. Even when I look back with full hindsight and go, “What should they have done differently?” I can’t really come up with an answer, because every option I come up with, there’s another counter-move Palpatine could have made. Not fight in the Clone Wars? They’d have been ripped to shreds by the Republic for not helping, as well as they’d have had to stand by and let people die. Etc.
Ultimately, this comic just further illustrates to me that, no, the Jedi aren’t perfect, but every time we see them (and it’d have been fascinating to get the perspective of the Council, we don’t actually hear anything from them or their side of things) they care deeply and are trying to figure out the best thing to do and are encouraging people to learn and question and do their best. GOD, THEY WERE SO GOOD, THERE WAS SO MUCH LIGHT WITHIN THEM, THEY CARED SO MUCH AND WANTED TO HELP SO MANY PEOPLE AND I’M JUST GONNA CRY ABOUT THEIR LOSS, THAT THIS IS WHY THEY WERE THE BIG THREAT TO PALPATINE, THIS IS WHY HE ABSOLUTELY HAD TO EXTINGUISH THEIR LIGHT FROM THE GALAXY.
[originally posted here]
Age of Republic: Qui-Gon Jinn #1 - SECOND POST:
Okay, first of all, those tags are rude as heck, I DID NOT ASK FOR THESE FEELINGS, but second of all THANK YOU FOR THIS.
The state of the galaxy during the time is absolutely fucked up and I love how thoroughly the Propaganda book covers that, I love how clear George Lucas is when he talks about it, but one of the interesting things is that, because the Jedi are often the main characters, we assume that the responsibility rests entirely on them, that they are thought to have as much power and influence as the Senate does.
When they very much do not! We see that they have military leadership, but The Clone Wars (and the comics) establish that they’re acting in a military role, rather than as a governmental one. They are given their authority by the Senate and we see plain evidence (in TCW and in the comics) that the galaxy fears and mistrusts the Jedi, even when they go around helping people, even when they literally have outreach centers for people to come talk to them and learn about them and idk probably have a class about What The Fuck The Force Even Is.
The answer wasn’t for the Jedi to secede from the Republic, because look how Palpatine used the Separatists for that. The answer wasn’t for them to take over in a coup (as they were accused of doing, but they never showed any sign of wanting that power for themselves, only that it couldn’t be left in the hands of a Sith Lord who literally controlled the Senate, I mean, how would that even work, unless they had the Senate on their side and they made absolutely move towards the Senate).
The answer was: They needed a better government. That was what needed fixing.
The Jedi understood that they were walking potential nuclear weapons just by existing, that that’s why so many people in the galaxy would go after Force-sensitive younglings and literally steal them away and auction them off and why the Jedi had to protect that list so intensely. Because they had all this power. And that kind of power that people couldn’t understand--even when the Jedi literally had outreach centers!--needed to be kept in check by another organization, so that people would accept them. They could have some autonomy within their area of expertise, but making them their own separate branch of government? They clearly didn’t want that and they weren’t meant to be politicians by default. (Though, some Jedi would have been good politicians. But they had a higher calling, something that was more important to them, a more precious duty that they cared deeply about. That’s not someone who should be in government.)
Under a competent and caring government, they wouldn’t have been forced to choose between their ideals and the real, tangible lives of people. Of course that wore them down, of course they made less than perfect choices, of course they made mistakes and the dark side ate into them because they were constantly surrounded by it and their psychic brains couldn’t help but soak it up, no matter how much they defended against it. But they weren’t really given the breathing room to take stock or the power to do much more than flit from one tire fire to the next, during the war.
Under a competent and caring government, they wouldn’t have been deliberately placed into a war meant to grind them down and make people see them only as violent, world-destroying soldiers, just so people would look the other way when the Jedi children were murdered.
Under a competent and caring government, they could have helped give the galaxy another thousand years of peace.
[originally posted here]
Age of Republic: Qui-Gon Jinn #1 - THIRD POST:
SO IT’S BEEN LIKE THREE DAYS AND I CAN’T STOP THINKING ABOUT THIS COMIC AND ALL IT BROUGHT UP.
The thing that is so striking about this issue is in Qui-Gon’s actions after his Force-woo vision is that he immediately goes and tells the Priestess of the Wood to stick around on Coruscant for awhile longer and find other allies, to work with other people, to work with the system. This isn’t just there for random filler, it’s half of the entire plot!
And it’s so strikingly similar to the ultimate message that was the issue of the Jedi in the Star Wars: Propaganda book: “That’s it, that’s their big flaw here. The Jedi were bad at public relations.”
In fairness, they were trying, they even had outreach centers! But, yeah, they were bad at PR and that was what led them down the doomed path they took. Oh, it’s more complicated than that, to be sure. There was the dark side constantly beating down on their minds because it was all around them, there was the impossible to answer quandary of honor vs real, tangible lives being lost without fighting for them, etc.
But ultimately the problem was not with the Jedi, not really. The problem was with the government and the Propaganda book makes that really clear in the way the Jedi are consistently not drawn into the absolute roasting the Republic gets. It’s also really clear in this description of Palpatine’s plans from Star Wars: The Visual Dictionary (scanned by the ever-wonderful @glompcat!)
“He understands that the corrupt Republic and the subservient Jedi Order can be brought down by playing to the weakness of the former: its mindless bureaucracy and attachment to power.”
WHAT A SLAM DUNK ON HOW IT’S NOT THE JEDI THAT’S THE PROBLEM, BY SPECIFYING THAT IT’S THE FORMER OF “THE CORRUPT REPUBLIC AND THE SUBSERVIENT JEDI ORDER” THAT’S THE PROBLEM.
Further illustrating that the answer to the problem was with the corruption in the Senate, that the Republic needed a better government, full stop, that’s it, that’s the real problem. Whatever else got gronked up along the way, this was the heart of it. That allying yourself with others is good, but when you’re allied to a body of government that’s spiraling into moral decay, it’s going to fuck you over hard. The answer is to get a better government. (Except that’s real fuckin’ hard when you’re only .01% of the public, you’re only ten thousand people out of a quadrillion people or whatever, when you’re kinda bad at PR.)
[originally posted here]
Age of Republic: Qui-Gon Jinn #1 - HUMOR POST #1:
I NEED TO YELL ABOUT THIS.
“Master Yoda, surely you did not track me down for a mere report. Especially when my Padawan has been so diligent in filing his own.”
I’M CRYING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I COULD NOT HAVE ASKED FOR ANYTHING FUNNIER THAN YOU KNOW OBI-WAN WAS BEING SUPER FUCKING PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE WITH HIS REPORT FILING.
HE’S MAKING SURE QUI-GON KNOWS HE IS UTTERLY SHIT AT IT
QUI-GON PROBABLY NOT CARING THAT HE’S UTTERLY SHIT AT IT
OBI-WAN PROBABLY WRITING TWENTY PAGES OF THE MOST BORING SHIT IN THOSE REPORTS JUST BECAUSE, BY GOD, IF HE HAS TO DO THIS (BECAUSE HIS MASTER IS SUCH UTTER SHIT AT DOING IT), HE’S GOING TO MAKE SURE THE PERSON READING THEM HAS TO SUFFER AS WELL
YES, MASTER SINBUE, YOU WILL HAVE TO READ THIRTY PAGES OF REPORT ABOUT THE LOCAL FLORA THAT I COPIED AND PASTED + SLIGHTLY REWORDED SO YOU CAN’T SAY I JUST COPIED AND PASTED IT FROM SPACE WOOKIEEPEDIA, BECAUSE IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO THE MISSION
VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU KNOW THE EXACT SPECIES OF PLANT THAT MASTER QUI-GON TRIPPED OVER WHEN HE WAS RESCUING THE PRIESTESS OF WOOD AND THE EXACT NUMBER OF CORUN THORNS HE GOT TANGLED IN HIS HAIR AND THE HOUR AND A HALF HE SPENT TRYING TO COMB THEM OUT
AND IT’S NOT AT ALL THAT HE’S JUST RATTING HIS MASTER OUT
HE’S BEING DILIGENT IN HIS REPORTS.
[originally posted here]
Age of Republic: Qui-Gon Jinn #1 - HUMOR POST #2:
BECAUSE OBI-WAN IS SUCH A TROLL ABOUT IT, WHEN QUI-GON SAYS WITH A HEAVY SIGH AND HIS PATIENCE HELD ONTO WITH A DEATH GRIP, “You don’t have to write everything in the report, Obi-Wan. Master Illian has, rather repeatedly, ah, gently mentioned that your reports could stand to be trimmed down some. I know you think this is amusing, but--”
OBI-WAN DOESN’T LOOK UP FROM THE THIRTY PAGE REPORT HE IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON AFTER QUI-GON MADE HIM CARRY THEIR SNOW WEATHER GEAR ON THE LAST MISSION AND TOLD HIM IT WAS A LIFE LESSON, AND ABOUT HOW QUI-GON SLIPPED ON A SLOPE THAT OBI-WAN WARNED HIM WAS UNSTABLE AND HOW THEY HAD TO SPEND THREE HOURS WITH QUI-GON AT THE BOTTOM OF A RAVINE WAITING FOR A SPEEDER LIFT TO GET HIM OUT, BECAUSE HE HAD ALSO CAUSED A SMALL AVALANCHE TO BURY HIMSELF UNDER AND THEN THERE WAS A HORDE OF VERY SMALL CHUCHA RODENTS THAT THOUGHT HE WOULD MAKE A GOOD MEAL, THEY WERE VERY DEADLY AND NOT AT ALL ADORABLE, THEY WERE PACK HUNTERS, YOU SEE, AND--
“OH, NO, MASTER, I DON’T THINK THIS IS AMUSING AT ALL. I’M JUST BEING VERY DILIGENT IN MY REPORTS, MASTER. UNLESS YOU’D LIKE TO WRITE YOUR OWN, MASTER?”
Qui-Gon stares at Obi-Wan with an unreadable expression for well over two minutes, very obviously weighing his options. “....I’ll just have to get better at avoiding Master Illian then,” he mutters and walks away, having lost this round.
“IF YOU SAY SO, MASTER,” OBI-WAN SAYS VERY SERIOUSLY AND RESPECTFULLY.
OBI-WAN KENOBI DIDN’T SURVIVE BEING QUI-GON JINN’S APPRENTICE BY BEING ANY KIND OF FOOL.
[originally posted here]
Age of Republic: Qui-Gon Jinn #1:
We already knew that Qui-Gon and Yoda were old friends, given how Qui-Gon reaches out to him after becoming a Force Ghost, but getting to actually see their friendship and the way Yoda listens to Qui-Gon when he’s questioning some things is pretty amazing.
The thing that really struck me about the issue is that--obviously, given that this is a story centered on his character--Qui-Gon does about 80% of the talking in their conversations, Yoda just lets him work it out for himself, offering the occasional bit of advice about how Jedi are often misunderstood, how Qui-Gon is doing what he can, how asking questions and seeking more understanding is always a good thing.
Yoda makes himself available and Qui-Gon takes him up on the offer, actually tells him what he’s thinking and there’s no admonishments, even when Qui-Gon is questioning their path. Of course it draws comparisons to other times Yoda has offered counsel to those who need it--Ahsoka talks to him and, as the TCW books say, she felt better afterwards, as so, so many Jedi do after talking to Yoda. It draws comparison to the time Anakin talks to Yoda in ROTS, when he’s not actually seeking advice, but instead reaffirmation of what he wants to be true. He’s not actually looking for anything other than something that will stop death all together and so he doesn’t actually open up when Yoda asks him questions, he just gives one-word answers.
Qui-Gon, in contrast, talks to Yoda and spills out everything, even the less than flattering things. Yoda sits and listens, offers support and companionship to just sit and watch the sunset or the night sky for awhile.
I AM SO HERE FOR YODA AND HIS GRANDKIDS AND HOW MUCH HE CARES ABOUT THEM AND IS ALWAYS WILLING TO LISTEN AND JUST SIT WITH THEM WHENEVER THEY ASK.
[originally posted here]
Age of Republic: Qui-Gon Jinn #1:
Because he’s right that Anakin is indeed the chosen one, but also Anakin’s choices led him to directly engage in the genocide of the Jedi, to choose to murder innocent children just because of the culture they were part of. So should he have done what he did or not?
Reading this, you can’t really say whether Qui-Gon’s choices and actions were the right ones. It’s so much more complicated than that and I think trying to boil his character down to angry righteousness QUI-GON WAS RIGHT!!! or tearing him down with QUI-GON’S ACTIONS LED TO ALL THEIR DEATHS!!! misses the bigger point of how the whole comic was about Qui-Gon’s search for answers, finding some and only getting more questions in return, how there was no easy answer to his unsettled feeling, and he was a person trying to do what he thought was best.
After this comic (as this is the post-story writeup in Age of Republic: Qui-Gon Jinn), I’m feeling really warm towards Qui-Gon, because I really saw how much he cared and how much he was trying. He sat with Yoda and tried to talk it out, who listened and encouraged him to seek more answers. He obviously didn’t find a clear-cut path and it’s easy to criticize or lionize his choices, but instead he’s a human being who took very human, understandable, empathizable steps and made understandable choices.
Yes, his role in things helped catalyze some really shitty things happening to his family and his entire people, but it wasn’t really just on Qui-Gon. He was one piece of a much, much bigger tapestry and there was never, ever going to be just one person or piece that was responsible for it all. He was someone who cared, who tried to do what he thought was best, and I find myself really liking him all over again. He tried so hard to help people and cared so much and his friendship with Yoda was really great and he obviously loved Obi-Wan very much and wanted to help Anakin and loved the Force and just UGH FEELINGS!!!
[originally posted here]
Age of Republic: Darth Maul #1 - FIRST POST:
LET ME RECAP THE STORYLINE FOR YOU: Maul’s champing at the bit after having killed the Jedi Padawan in the previous mini series, he’s just so so so so ready to get out there and kill more Jedi. For a brief time killer he goes to help out a spice smuggler, one who has the Force but was never trained with it. “He’ll never know what he could have been.” is what Maul thinks as he kills him.
Then Sidious talks to Maul about how they can’t run off half-cocked and takes Maul back to Malachor and has him SNORT THE ASHES OF DEAD SITH and the Force shows Maul a vision of himself being a Jedi, helping a Zabrak family in need, and he’s so enraged by this, he kills them all, waking back up to his warped and twisted vision on Malachor.
THERE IS SO MUCH GOING ON AND IT’S AMAZING.
“He’ll never know what he could have been.” is the heart of this issue, it’s the whole reason the first half of the storyline was included. A smuggler who was never adopted by the Jedi (showing that, again, if someone says no to them, it’s not like the Jedi kidnap the baby or force this on anyone, they are not babynappers) has all this potential with the Force, but he’ll never know the path he might have otherwise taken.
Cue THE LIFE MAUL COULD HAVE LIVED. The life where he could have been a Jedi, if he’d been allowed to go to them, if they’d been able to help him. He could have lived a life of helping others, the Force shows him helping a young Zabrak boy, being welcomed by the boy’s family, that he could have lived a life that was good, that made him content and joyful instead of angry and unable to see the world clearly.
The previous Maul comic was all about Maul’s warped point of view, how Sidious had twisted him, lied to him, manipulated him. You see the vision of the Jedi being these warped, haunting figures that are clearly Funhouse Mirror style untruths. But then the vision of Maul as a Jedi is sharply in focus, it’s accurate to how he looks. There’s more reliability here.
And Maul cannot accept it. Cannot accept that there was life for him that would have been so much kinder and warmer, he’s enraged by the Force showing him this vision because it’s lies lies lies lies, it has to be lies because accepting it as truth would devastate him. And yet I think some part of him really wanted it, would have been so content with helping others, with being at peace, with having good things given to him and being able to give those to others.
But he has to lash out, because if it was true, then everything he suffered through up until now was a lie. And that cannot be the lie, it has to be that the Jedi were evil and that he could never have been one of them. They are the ones who are afraid, not him! They are the ones who are a plague upon the galaxy, not him! They are the ones living a lie, not him!!!
(OH NO HELP I’M HAVING MAUL FEELINGS.)
[originally posted here]
Age of Republic: Darth Maul #1 - SECOND POST:
From bloodilymerry: You know, I also find it really interesting that the Force seems to me telling Maul, on Malachor, which is a dark, terrible place, full of death that he could be better. Just like it later tells Vader that he can go back, he can still kill Palpatine, find Obi-Wan and atone–while he’s bleeding the kyber crystal he took from Kirak. It’s like the Force really, really, really wants those Sith idiots to find a better way. and them, being Sith idiots, don’t listen.
WHAT A GREAT OBSERVATION. There’s a quote about the Sith from George Lucas that I always find to be really interesting:
"So the idea of temptation is one of the things we struggle against, and the temptation obviously is the temptation to go to the dark side. One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the dark side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually, there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, become the master, and so on. But there could never be any more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies." - George Lucas, TIME magazine, April 26, 1999
The dark side has always been about the dark impulses and sides of ourselves, that we must struggle to overcome those things. The Sith are the ones who full scale embrace those terrible things (fear, greed, cruelty, suffering, anger, pain, rage, hate) and when you set up a system like the way they did, it becomes a cancer, rather than a healthy relationship.
The Sith are poison by their very design and the way they interact with each other. This is why it literally rots bodies (as we see in the Lando comic) in addition to minds and souls. It’s not that the Force or the Jedi were trying to wipe out the dark side, they were trying to deal with the Sith, who are, by word of god, a twisting and corruption of the Force. (And, you know, they run around murdering people, that kind of thing generally needs to be stopped.)
I kind of love the idea that the Force is trying to heal this twisting, poisonous wound on itself. It shows Vader that he doesn’t have to be a Sith. It shows Maul that he doesn’t have to be a Sith. There are sparks of something that might still be reached (except, no, neither of them can admit to how much would be lost if their lives and choices were a lie, they cannot accept it). But “them, being Sith idiots, [they] don’t listen“ EXACTLY.
[originally posted here]
no subject
I held off on reading this cause I had the comics on their way and they came today. I’ve just read the Qui-Gon one so I’m gonna read the Maul one soon.
The first part is stuff we’ve discussed before and I still agree with them. If only the republic had been more competent things would have been so much better.
But the thing with the republic was, it was screwed up already. The corruption and bureaucracy was already there, Palpatine just took advantage and dialled it up.
Hee the idea of Obi-Wan doing reports like that is so funny.
Seeing them interact like that was such a good thing, it shows his relationship with Yoda and that he giving counsel like that seems to be part of his nature. Like you I liked that he listened to what Qui-Gon has to say, taking it all in and it’s good that he was clearly so comfortable to let it all out, even his doubts.
I’ve not read the bit at the back yet, since it’s starting to go dark. But from what you say it seems to be much like your earlier comments about the Jedi. Once he found Anakin and how strong he was in the force, he had to get him away to the Jedi. If he hadn’t? Then what? Palpatine could have just swooped in and took him, or even someone else could have. At least with the Jedi he could be kept an eye on (although obviously that didn’t work)
In a way what you say about Qui-Gon also mirrors Padme’s choice in Episode I. She comes to the senate in hopes of helping her people and she’s coerced into making a choice that she thinks will help, but instead leads to the things she loves getting destroyed.
After reading Qui-Gon it makes me look forward to the upcoming book more, to gain more insight into him. It’ll be interesting to see if it’s set after this comic or before too.
I’ll read the rest when I’ve read Maul 💜
no subject
Yes, exactly! Palpatine takes what's already there, what's already festering away, and makes it damn near impossible to turn away from it. As terrifying a Sith Lord as he is, the real genius of his character is in the way he used politics to tip the Republic over into the Empire and people turned up at the parade to celebrate it. Maybe not always happily, but they still turned up. They didn't lift a finger when the Jedi were murdered. They didn't do anything widescale about the clones. The Republic let it happen.
To be fair, Palpatine definitely created an atmosphere of fear. One of the reasons Senators like Mon Mothma went along with it is because those who spoke out, those who didn't support the Empire, met with sudden "accidental" deaths, and she was terrified. She signed documents that she knew were wrong because she was so scared. And part of that was such a burning reason why she held to the Rebellion so hard, because she was making up for her actions then. (This is detailed in Rebel Files, I believe?)
Which is sort of fascinating that Palpatine could get them to that point, that he really did use this war that he engineered so incredibly brilliantly, that he played on the corruption already there and made it so, so much worse.
Like you I liked that he listened to what Qui-Gon has to say, taking it all in and it’s good that he was clearly so comfortable to let it all out, even his doubts.
I loved it because it's so easy to harp on Qui-Gon's clashing with the Jedi Council and forget that he very, very much loves the Jedi, he is a Jedi, he takes comfort from talking with Yoda, he doesn't feel afraid or hesitant to talk about his doubts, because he's not punished for them, but instead listened to and they all know that this isn't such an easy thing, that there aren't any easy answers.
But also LINEAGE FEELINGS and how I hope that someday we get to see Yoda and Dooku and Qui-Gon interacting all at the same time.
In a way what you say about Qui-Gon also mirrors Padme’s choice in Episode I. She comes to the senate in hopes of helping her people and she’s coerced into making a choice that she thinks will help, but instead leads to the things she loves getting destroyed.
Yes! That is such a FASCINATING scene, because we're seeing it so intensely from Padme's perspective, we know she's telling the truth about what's happening on Naboo, but she brings no evidence of it, other than her own word. She doesn't bring holo footage of it, she doesn't even have the Jedi testify about what they've seen--of course the Senate should say, "We need to look into this, because it's a serious accusation." But Palpatine has wound her up so that she makes all these disastrous choices about how she presents it and then that how DARE they not believe her, she must take this into her own hands!, all so that he can get Valorum out of office and himself elected into power.
Padme's choices are all incredibly sympathetic human understandable ones. They're ones I very well probably would have made in her place! And yet they lead to this really terrible end that nobody could have reasonably foreseen!
I hope you like the Maul comic, too!
no subject
Fear was another of his greatest allies, he managed to scare good people like Mon into doing things like that. I’ve not read the Rebel Files but that does sound exactly like her.
Yeah! And he did it all without having to his sith abilities because he just used what was there.
I think that comes down to his main interaction in Episode I is of him clashing with them, so it’s easy to take that and think that’s how he is all the time when it most likely wasn’t. Like you’ve said there are no easy answers for them, but it was nice to see that being actually portrayed. They knew they had no answers and this was before the war even started, when such things would be worse.
That would be awesome to see them all interact like that!
It really is! As viewers we have seen for ourselves that it’s happening so we take Padme’s perspective. But of course they would want some kind of proof to act right away (but then again, what proof would have satisfied the. And even if she did, it would still have taken time). Now that you mention it, it is strange she doesn’t get the Jedi to testify on her behalf. And of course, Palpatine sees this as exactly the opportunity he can’t pass up. He gets her so wound up that she votes no confidence in Valorum.
Exactly, I think anyone in her position would have done the same, would have pushed for justice. And then she gets to see the consequences behind it, which are so terrible
I hope so too, thanks!
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The Outer Rim and even the Mid-Rim and Inner Rim worlds felt distanced from the Core Worlds, they felt disenfranchised and that there was never anything they were going to do that would help those worlds that needed it, that they didn't care about them. And they weren't wrong about that--so many Senators didn't care. One of the biggest points of the clone army was because the Republic citizens didn't want to have to fight for themselves, they wanted other people to do it for them!
And that's exactly why everything still goes to hell even once the Empire is torn down. Yes, the Rebellion finally garners enough strength to take him down, yes, they have the public's support, but it's a galaxy of trillions, possibly quadrillions, yet the Rebellion always seems so small? Then the New Republic is established, but they work so hard at not having even a single whiff of the Empire about them, Leia is disgusted the Senate still bickers and squabbles amongst itself, they still don't want to hear about the dangers lurking on the edges, they don't want to hear about the Empire (unless it's to romanticize it) because, yes, yes, everyone knows it's bad, but we're tired of hearing about it.
It's commentary on and a reflection of how the public in general is about these things, that the politicians and the Jedi and the clones are the exciting part of the story, that they can shape many things in the galaxy, but that the true heart of the galaxy's path depends on the citizens of the public-in-general. And they keep making the same mistakes because THEY NEVER LEARNED FROM THEM.
Now that you mention it, it is strange she doesn’t get the Jedi to testify on her behalf. And of course, Palpatine sees this as exactly the opportunity he can’t pass up.
I have little doubt that Palpatine directly encouraged her/discouraged her from bringing the Jedi in, despite that Valorum sent them there himself, Valorum sent that order, why wouldn't they be called in to testify??? And the thing is, it's not until a decade later that Padme will have any idea that Palpatine did it on purpose or where it was going to lead--because she was so angry at Valorum for seeming to sit on his hands and do nothing in the face of her planet being attacked, despite that she brought no proof beyond her own word. Not even Palpatine himself stands up and says, "Yes, this is happening."
She's so wound up over her feelings (perfectly understandable and reasonable feelings, given that her people are being put into camps and dying!) that she doesn't have a calm enough head to wade into these politics and she directly contributes to Palpatine's rise to power.
That said, of course it's not Padme's fault. Both because it's PALPATINE'S FAULT NOBODY ELSE'S but also because that's a guy who would have found another way, if it weren't through getting Valorum voted out. And the thing was, it can't have just been the one issue, Valorum had to be teetering on the edge for awhile, if this one instance was enough to get him voted out.
Palpatine had already put those pieces into place, too, no doubt.
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That’s so very true!
And that’s true as well, it’s clear in the Aftermath books. Mon is already talking about dismantling the military and then there are planets that genuinely need liberating (like Kashyyyk) and the senate is like ‘nope, don’t care’. And then when the first order rises, like you say, no one wants to know (a thing mentioned in the Poe comic). It makes me wonder how Ep IX will play out.
Yeah, that’s a good point. I could see him dissauding her easily. (Which of course brings up why didn’t Valorum bring them in?)
Exactly! She’s purely emotional and frustrated, because this is a situation that needs resolving now, not weeks or months in the future (at which point the trade federation could have hid what they did).
Yeah exactly! I think one of the old eu books covered him working behind the scenes, hinting to people that Valorum was weak and getting others on his side.
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And it hits this place of how I don't think Star Wars is meant to be taken super realistically, that instead it's a space fairy tale and it's about themes and good vs evil, that if you want something more complicated or shades of moral gray, there are loads more stories out there for you instead. This one canon doesn't have to be anything beyond what it is.
So, I do love the Aftermath books, but I have a hell of a time figuring out how they fit together with the rest of Star Wars on a thematic level. (They're great for story details, though! And I love Norra's crew so much. T__T)
I suspect IX won't get much into politics, judging by VII and VIII, but maybe that's a good thing? As much as I've made my peace with the movies, I'm not sure how well equipped they are to tackle the bigger structure, like George Lucas knew what he wanted to do, he had a vision of that world and its politics, while the ST is more about plot and character, I think?