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Star Wars Character Meta [Canon]
Originally posted here.
I was talking with @belldreams the other night and she’d recently rewatched ANH and brought up the question: “Why did Obi-Wan let Darth Vader strike him down?” and, boy, do I have thoughts and feelings about that scene!
But I think it was more than that and the prequels gave it so much more depth. Obi-Wan had spent the last 19 years in the desert in exile, that struggle to get up in the morning every day was only accomplished through his affection for Luke and his duty as a Jedi and holding on to the last bit of Anakin he had, it took everything that was left of him after he might as well have died on Mustafar.
Uncle Owen tells Luke that he thinks his father and General Kenobi died about the same time and, in the OT by itself, it’s a misdirection and rumor, it’s meant to throw the viewer (and Luke) off the scent of what really happened, to keep him safe. But with the new context, it’s such a true line–Obi-Wan Kenobi died on Mustafar, all that was left of him was just a shell, after the loss of the Jedi Order, the loss of his entire culture, and the loss of Anakin. On a personal level, I don’t know that he walked away from that fight, I think he maybe he did die there with Anakin.
Obi-Wan lets Darth Vader kill him because it’s his time, I’m sure the Force was telling him that it was okay to let go of this plane of existence now, and I think Obi-Wan may have welcomed it. He was just a shell of a person by that point, most of what was left of him was his care for other people. This was his next step forward, this is what he was meant for, to buy them time to escape, to show Luke what Darth Vader was capable of, and so that he could be there to spiritually guide Luke through the moments he most needed help in.
But most importantly of all, why did Obi-Wan let Darth Vader kill him?
Because, even if Obi-Wan honestly believed that there was nothing left of Anakin there (and, given his experiences with Sith Lords, I can’t blame him for thinking that, everything he’d been through would have told him exactly that, given Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, and Darth Tyrannus), he still couldn’t kill what was once Anakin Skywalker.
That:
[Originally posted here.]
Anonymous Asked: Just marathoned the prequels; why is Anakin such a whiny little bitch?
Possibly you meant this in nothing but a derogatory way, not wanting any kind of serious answer, but HA HA I AM THE WRONG PERSON TO POSE SUCH A QUESTION TO THEN.
I mean, aside from objecting to the phrasing, Anakin is the way he is because he’s not emotionally stable and he was never meant to be. He’s constantly anxious and fearful and doesn’t know how to deal with his constant, 24/7 boil of sheer amount of feelings, he’s living with this pressure of not feeling like he’s the person he’s supposed to be (he’s not the Jedi he’s supposed to be, he’s not the husband he’s supposed to be, he’s not the friend he’s supposed to be) and forget being the Chosen One, just feeling like you’re failing as a person is enough to fuck anyone over.
Anakin Skywalker was never meant to be a masculine power fantasy, he was never meant to be a cool badass who went dark side just because he had anger issues.
Anakin Skywalker is an actual emotional mess.
He doesn’t know how to talk to anyone about it (see: all the times Obi-Wan offered to talk about things with him, but Anakin could never bring himself to do it, it was too hard, too much, too complicated, he was too afraid of rejection, too afraid of losing people he loved), he lives with the absolutely constant fear of the unknown, the anxiety of “What if things went wrong?? What if I lose this person??” in a way that screams to me of mental health issues. And I relate to that–no matter how illogical it is, sometimes there are brain weasels in my head who will not stop squirming around in there, who will not stop wiggling and writhing and whirling, until that puts a tremendous amount of stress on me emotionally.
He’s someone who has been actively preyed on by Palpatine since he was a child, who constantly fed all the worst impulses and fears Anakin had, who made him think he was the most special ever and that the people who genuinely cared for him were holding him back, that the Jedi never appreciated him and that everything they were trying to do was because they couldn’t see his worth.
Anakin Skywalker hates himself more than anyone else ever could, he has so little sense of self and he tries to force himself to be the person he thinks he’s supposed to be. He idealizes certain things and people and methods, but when they don’t go the way he imagines them, he doesn’t know how to cope with that loss or how to be emotionally stable enough to handle it.
Those scenes he has with Padme in Episode II are so deeply emotional, because Anakin is 100% made of emotions that he doesn’t know how to handle, they are dialed up to 11 in him and he doesn’t know how to turn them back down. And they’re cringe-worthy because he is so very desperate and so very awkward and he doesn’t really know how to handle any of this, but he can’t not reach out to her, he can’t not spill his feelings everywhere.
Anakin Skywalker is someone who is emotions turned way the fuck up and then left at that level–when you want so many things so desperately, when you know you shouldn’t be like this, but you can’t stop yourself, when you have those brain weasels in your head, yeah, you get pretty “whiny” because you’re struggling to stay afloat and it just doesn’t fucking work, but you’re still full of all these feelings and they gotta go somewhere, so they burst out of you and blind you, because they’re just so intense you can’t see past them. They consume you.
And, honestly, I wouldn’t change him. Anakin Skywalker being an actual goddamned emotional mess is what made me understand him and come to love him!
I was talking with @belldreams the other night and she’d recently rewatched ANH and brought up the question: “Why did Obi-Wan let Darth Vader strike him down?” and, boy, do I have thoughts and feelings about that scene!
Even before the context of the prequels, to me it was clear that Obi-Wan knew that he couldn’t beat Darth Vader, there was no point in trying and he wanted to show Luke just what this man was capable of: Killing, in cold blood, someone who lowered their weapon and wasn’t fighting back. Was it a manipulative move? Kinda, but it also relied on Darth Vader murdered a defenseless old man who wasn’t fighting back. Someone who had been mentor and friend would not stop Vader from ruthlessly striking them down. Luke needed to know that.
But I think it was more than that and the prequels gave it so much more depth. Obi-Wan had spent the last 19 years in the desert in exile, that struggle to get up in the morning every day was only accomplished through his affection for Luke and his duty as a Jedi and holding on to the last bit of Anakin he had, it took everything that was left of him after he might as well have died on Mustafar.
Uncle Owen tells Luke that he thinks his father and General Kenobi died about the same time and, in the OT by itself, it’s a misdirection and rumor, it’s meant to throw the viewer (and Luke) off the scent of what really happened, to keep him safe. But with the new context, it’s such a true line–Obi-Wan Kenobi died on Mustafar, all that was left of him was just a shell, after the loss of the Jedi Order, the loss of his entire culture, and the loss of Anakin. On a personal level, I don’t know that he walked away from that fight, I think he maybe he did die there with Anakin.
Obi-Wan lets Darth Vader kill him because it’s his time, I’m sure the Force was telling him that it was okay to let go of this plane of existence now, and I think Obi-Wan may have welcomed it. He was just a shell of a person by that point, most of what was left of him was his care for other people. This was his next step forward, this is what he was meant for, to buy them time to escape, to show Luke what Darth Vader was capable of, and so that he could be there to spiritually guide Luke through the moments he most needed help in.
But most importantly of all, why did Obi-Wan let Darth Vader kill him?
Because, even if Obi-Wan honestly believed that there was nothing left of Anakin there (and, given his experiences with Sith Lords, I can’t blame him for thinking that, everything he’d been through would have told him exactly that, given Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, and Darth Tyrannus), he still couldn’t kill what was once Anakin Skywalker.
That:
Contemplation of death brought only one slight sting of regret, and more than a bit of puzzlement. Until this very moment, [Obi-Wan] had never realized he’d always expected, for no discernible reason–
That when he died, Anakin would be with him.“
–Revenge of the Sith, Matthew Stover
Obi-Wan’s path had led him here. He couldn’t kill what was left of Anakin, no matter how evil and corrupted it was, and it was his time, he was ready to die, with what little of Anakin there was in this galaxy was with him, one last time.
[Originally posted here.]
Anonymous Asked: Just marathoned the prequels; why is Anakin such a whiny little bitch?
Possibly you meant this in nothing but a derogatory way, not wanting any kind of serious answer, but HA HA I AM THE WRONG PERSON TO POSE SUCH A QUESTION TO THEN.
I mean, aside from objecting to the phrasing, Anakin is the way he is because he’s not emotionally stable and he was never meant to be. He’s constantly anxious and fearful and doesn’t know how to deal with his constant, 24/7 boil of sheer amount of feelings, he’s living with this pressure of not feeling like he’s the person he’s supposed to be (he’s not the Jedi he’s supposed to be, he’s not the husband he’s supposed to be, he’s not the friend he’s supposed to be) and forget being the Chosen One, just feeling like you’re failing as a person is enough to fuck anyone over.
Anakin Skywalker was never meant to be a masculine power fantasy, he was never meant to be a cool badass who went dark side just because he had anger issues.
Anakin Skywalker is an actual emotional mess.
He doesn’t know how to talk to anyone about it (see: all the times Obi-Wan offered to talk about things with him, but Anakin could never bring himself to do it, it was too hard, too much, too complicated, he was too afraid of rejection, too afraid of losing people he loved), he lives with the absolutely constant fear of the unknown, the anxiety of “What if things went wrong?? What if I lose this person??” in a way that screams to me of mental health issues. And I relate to that–no matter how illogical it is, sometimes there are brain weasels in my head who will not stop squirming around in there, who will not stop wiggling and writhing and whirling, until that puts a tremendous amount of stress on me emotionally.
He’s someone who has been actively preyed on by Palpatine since he was a child, who constantly fed all the worst impulses and fears Anakin had, who made him think he was the most special ever and that the people who genuinely cared for him were holding him back, that the Jedi never appreciated him and that everything they were trying to do was because they couldn’t see his worth.
Anakin Skywalker hates himself more than anyone else ever could, he has so little sense of self and he tries to force himself to be the person he thinks he’s supposed to be. He idealizes certain things and people and methods, but when they don’t go the way he imagines them, he doesn’t know how to cope with that loss or how to be emotionally stable enough to handle it.
Those scenes he has with Padme in Episode II are so deeply emotional, because Anakin is 100% made of emotions that he doesn’t know how to handle, they are dialed up to 11 in him and he doesn’t know how to turn them back down. And they’re cringe-worthy because he is so very desperate and so very awkward and he doesn’t really know how to handle any of this, but he can’t not reach out to her, he can’t not spill his feelings everywhere.
Anakin Skywalker is someone who is emotions turned way the fuck up and then left at that level–when you want so many things so desperately, when you know you shouldn’t be like this, but you can’t stop yourself, when you have those brain weasels in your head, yeah, you get pretty “whiny” because you’re struggling to stay afloat and it just doesn’t fucking work, but you’re still full of all these feelings and they gotta go somewhere, so they burst out of you and blind you, because they’re just so intense you can’t see past them. They consume you.
And, honestly, I wouldn’t change him. Anakin Skywalker being an actual goddamned emotional mess is what made me understand him and come to love him!
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The way you mentioned Obi-Wan being his mentor and friend I couldn’t help but remember Anakin’s line from ROTS admonishing Obi-Wan for wanting to spy on his mentor and friend Palpatine.
I agree though, I think part of Obi-Wan died that day on Mustafar, because how could he not? He lost so much, his best friend, the order, the republic and all over the space of a day or so. I think all that kept him going was the need to look out for Luke.
I don’t think he could bring himself to kill Anakin, no matter what. I watch ROTS a few days ago and I wonder how things would have gone if he’d gone after Sidious instead of Yoda, or if they’d took him together.
As for Anakin, I think part of him being a mess is down to the Jedi. The Jedi take kids to be trained, and that means that they can mould them and, essentially, get rid of their emotions or train them out of them. (Which, let’s be honest, is pretty creepy)
In walks Anakin. He’s the chosen one, so they can’t ignore that, but he’s also lived. He has emotions, and he’s too old to lose them in the same way as the other Jedi. So I think there’s a lack of support network in the Jedi to help him deal with emotions. He probably feels like he’s looked down on for that too, which doesn’t help.
If he told Obi-Wan about his feelings would he have listened? I’m sure Obi-Wan would but as think Anakin was afraid of what he would think or do.
And like you say, you have Palpatine there, putting things in his mind like that. He did it in the Anakin and Obi-Wan comic too and who knows how often he did that too.
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Honestly, Obi-Wan would be dead, I"m pretty sure. And who knows if Yoda would have been able to kill Anakin or not. The reason Obi-Wan could match Anakin so well is because they knew each other, because they were perfectly matched. The implication was that, yes, Anakin was stronger than Sidious, so I'm guessing Yoda probably would have failed against Anakin, but Obi-Wan definitely would have failed against Sidious and might win against Anakin. They really had no other options, the Sith had forced their hand in this.
The Jedi take kids to be trained, and that means that they can mould them and, essentially, get rid of their emotions or train them out of them.
Actually, they say not to get rid of emotions! Obi-Wan says in TCW that emotions are normal and expected. Depa says in the comics that those feelings are valued and not to be suppressed. Mace says in the comics that someone who doesn't speak the same language as he does, well, "emotion is their shared tongue". And, honestly, all the Jedi are showing emotion all over the place in the movies and the comics!
It's about not getting lost in those feelings, because they're psychic and tapping into all living things, which are blaring feelings at them, so they have to be in control, otherwise those emotions will control them.
The Jedi have never said Anakin (or anyone else) should be emotionless, only when Anakin starts to lose control does anyone say that he needs to reign it back in--and Rebels shows us why that's bad, like when Ezra goes out of control and his fear causes the fyrnocks to attack, that's straight up because he lost control of his emotions and put everyone around him in danger.
And there's a really great essay from an actual psychologist about how the Jedi ways actually are analgous to therapy (here), so there is a support network for Anakin, it's just not the one he wants, which is Palpatine telling him his feelings make him special. I mean, I get why Anakin does it, and I have such empathy for him (because I see A LOT of him in myself), but he definitely had the tools to help him and chose not to. ):
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I'm genuinely not trying to start a fight with you or anything, I get that sometimes I get really passionate, but I promise that I respect your position and your kindness towards me, regardless of where we end up in this discussion.
(It's probably unnecessary to state all this BUT IT MAKES ME FEEL BETTER TO SAY IT. XD)
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Oh yeah, I think some of that stuff Jedi critical stuff is still in my mind even now. Some of it seems to be really hard to shake.
Hey that’s ok! Passion is good! And I love that your so passionate!
💜
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So, thank you for being kind and reassuring! ♥
LOOK, I'M A NERD, YOU GUYS ALL KNEW WHAT YOU WERE SIGNING UP FOR WHEN YOU LOGGED ONTO THIS JOURNAL. ^_~
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That’s ok!
Of course! I don’t often get to nerd out about Star Wars half as much as I’d like to so this is good!
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I’ve not read the comics with Depain but now that you mention those things I vaguely recall them. I’ve not seen the Clone Wars in awhile so I’d probably got hazy on some of the bits in them (I hope to do a full rewatch before the new eps)
Like you mentioned there were a lot of Jedi critical stuff and some of it has ended up sticking unfortunately.
You make very good points there as always!
Yeah Palpatine seemed to manoeuvre himself to poison Anakin so well. It would be interesting to see more of their relationship between I and II and see if the Jedi ever tried to stop it
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A lot of people really love Legends and I love a lot about Legends, too! But there's a reason I'm hard on the delineation between it and Canon--because the creators and owners of Star Wars have always and consistently said that's how it works.
MY POINT IS, that there's a lot of stuff out there that people will point to (especially taken out of context, because SO MUCH of this fandom hasn't actually read what they're repeating, I suspect) and so it's not like I'm going HOW COULD ANYONE EVER POSSIBLY THINK THAT??? but instead, "Here's why I strongly disagree. Agree or not at your own pace! :D"
Yeah Palpatine seemed to manoeuvre himself to poison Anakin so well. It would be interesting to see more of their relationship between I and II and see if the Jedi ever tried to stop it
*ROLLS UP SLEEVES* See, I love this question, because I think it's pretty clearly they did, as much as they realistically could have. In the Obi-Wan & Anakin comic, Mace tries to object to Palpatine spending time with Anakin, but Palpatine pulls rank on them and forces the situation. The thing is, they have no proof of Palpatine being evil, and we've seen a lot of canon pov stuff (I'm especially thinking of Scum and Villainy right now, the recent guidebook) where people legitimately thought Palpatine was super cool, so within the universe we're meant to understand that nobody really suspects him directly, he just seems like another politician.
We also see the Jedi object to Palpatine wanting to send Anakin back to Tatooine in the The Clone Wars movie, but he pulls rank on them again. (There was a third instance, but I forget it now. XD) These are small moments, but I think they tell a pretty compelling story about how, yes, the Jedi did try to stop it, but they had no concrete evidence with which to actually make a stand on! They just had a vague dislike of the situation, but nothing they could point to!
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Like I said in the other post the legends novels I liked the most were ones that never dealt with Jedi all the much, which I think is for the best.
That’s ok! I admire your passion (and love the thought you put into things ).
Yeah I read Anakin and Obi-Wan for the first time a couple of months back and thought there was a lot of great stuff in there. (Especially how Obi-Wan was willing to leave with Anakin if he did!)
Scum and Villiany looks so awesome, I really need to get it soon after Christmas. But anyway!
Yeah, I think it’s clear that they did attempt to stop it, but they never succeeded because he would pull rank like that. He may be just another politician, but it’s clear they see it’s strange that he has this interest in Anakin. But like you say they have no proof until it’s far too late
I recall that Palpatine did use his influence in the Clone Wars to get Anakin moved from where he was stationed at least once (during the Krell episodes I think?)
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I had to buy it pretty much right away because of the calendar info and because it wasn't super expensive and it's such a gorgeous book! These books really are so much prettier in person, the physical copies in your hands are always going to outshine any scans on-line!
He may be just another politician, but it’s clear they see it’s strange that he has this interest in Anakin. But like you say they have no proof until it’s far too late
We don't really even know how much they suspected anything untoward, just how far that suspicion went. If nothing else, they don't know that he's the Sith Lord they're searching for until ROTS, so it's pretty safe to say that, while they weren't precisely fans, they didn't have any in-universe knowledge of how genuinely dangerous he was. And the point is very much made that Palpatine was actually very convincing in-universe! He comes across as hammy and super obvious to us, the audience, because Ian McDairmid played him that way, but in-universe? Nobody really knew, except those he revealed himself to.
Oh, that's the other thing! ROTS! They really, intensely did not want to put Anakin on the Council, but they apparently weren't even ALLOWED to say no, once Palpatine put his foot down. They did the only thing they could to object--and because Anakin frankly WAS NOT READY to be a Master--but they still had to do what the Chancellor said!
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I still think it carries weight in the sense of Anakin's portrayal in it, because that's what Stover talks about the most of how he had no wiggle room on it, so it can be used as a frame of reference to how George Lucas approved of Anakin, but you can't use it as Canon.
So, I'd say not quite on the level of Word of God, certainly not on the level of Canon, but carrying more weight than the other stuff of Legends, just a bit.
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One thing I really enjoyed about the novel was the part where Anakin was like "hmmm, slaughtering people? I kind of enjoy this, fuck yeah :) finally!!! :D" because in the movie you see him crying while he kills. So I'm torn between these both scenes, because I like them both lol :D
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YES! I have too many feelings about this stupid book that makes me wanna cry 24/7 *ugly sobbing*
"Anakin Skywalker is an actual emotional mess."
that's why we love him T_T *still sobbing*
"who constantly fed all the worst impulses and fears Anakin had"
you know which scene always breaks my heart in this stupid ROTS movie *angry pointing at this stupid movie* The deleted scene where Anakin says that his time will come (to be a master) when he is older and wiser. AND HE LOOKS SO SOFT IN THIS MOMENT AND THEN EVIL PLOTTING PALPATINE IS DOING PALPATINE-STUFF AND WILL I EVER GET OVER THIS???????? the answer is no.
"Those scenes he has with Padme in Episode II are so deeply emotional, because Anakin is 100% made of emotions that he doesn’t know how to handle"
And I love this so much. People hate the dialogs in Episode II, but I love every cheesy bit of it, I even adore the sand-part that everyone hates. I LOVE THE SAND METAPHER *screams into the void of madness* I love his super theatric dialog in Episode II, but I also love his unemotionally "His fate will be the same as ours", because I think THIS is Anakin. I knoooow, most people would put me in a mental clinic for this opinion, but lmao, Anakin is perfect as he is.
yeah.
"Anakin Skywalker being an actual goddamned emotional mess is what made me understand him and come to love him!"
yesss :3
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No matter how much shit I give him, how much I really pull apart the shitty choices he made, I really do love his character and there's a reason I spend so much time talking about him. (Well, there's just so much of his story to talk about, too. XD)
And I love this so much. People hate the dialogs in Episode II, but I love every cheesy bit of it, I even adore the sand-part that everyone hates.
YES, ME, TOO. It's perfect for Anakin--it's SUCH a disaster of a flirtation, but it's also a fairy tale like piece of dialogue, and it's also clearly about far more than just the obvious. It's about how much he hates being from a backwater planet, how much he wishes he could have been from a nicer planet, that he feels lesser because of it, even when no one else cares or judges him for it. He's got that trapped inside himself and he can't let go of it (he can't let go of so many things) and it eats away at him.
The deleted scene where Anakin says that his time will come (to be a master) when he is older and wiser.
This is what breaks my heart, too! He comes so close to almost, almost letting go of things, of finding peace. Like when Ahsoka is kidnapped by Trandoshans, he almost, almost has a breakthrough where he starts learning to let go. And I just want to scream at him to trust the people who are trying to help him, to actually tell them something, rather than one-word answers or outright lies or silence or lashing out at them when they try to talk to him! Trust the people who are trying to help you lance these wounds, to clear the infection out, NOT the guy telling you that your wounds make you more special than everyone else!
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It's funny, but it's also so incredibly true! He really did have so much potential, he could have been a brilliant Jedi Knight and I think that's so much of what the people around him saw in him. They loved him so much that it was next to impossible for them to believe that he was capable of these terrible things.
Padme, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, they all had to struggle to believe that Anakin really did those things, because he hid his problems from them for so long, no matter how many times they asked him to talk. And I get why he did it, he felt like they would never understand, he didn't want to let go of those feelings that made him special (as Palpatine said), but they ended up eating him instead. His own dragon controlled him instead of him controlling it.
UGH, AND YET I STILL LOVE HIM SO MUCH.
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The scans I’ve seen look amazing! I’m always in awe of the incredible art that they have.
That’s true. I remember in one of the legends books that was set right before rots it showed them getting suspicious his office might have the sith in it. How much of that suspicion is in the new canon I’m not sure.
There’s also a thing that we,the audience, know that he becomes the emperor going into the prequels so we know that he’s evil even before it’s made clear. Obviously he must have been convincing in universe to get into the position he is and maintain it for a decade before the Clone Wars
Oh yeah! Exactly! That is a really weird move there by him, because the he shouldn’t have been able to interfere like that (and surely it was an unprecedented move) but at the same time what could they do? Anakin is so emotional and say no to him would have been worse
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It's not new, we've seen a lot of propaganda swallowed hook, line, and sinker by a lot of people (Ciena and Thane in Lost Stars or Brendol and Armitage Hux in The Last Jedi, for example) but seeing him without our own view of him was really fascinating to show that, within the universe, Palpatine wasn't this evil figure, but instead someone people truly believed in and trusted. Which makes us remember, whoa, okay, yeah, it's easy for us in the audience to know that he's the Emperor, we're meant to know that from the first time he shows up in The Phantom Menace, but the Jedi and the people of the Republic aren't meant to know that.
It also shows, that by the time of ROTS, the Chancellor's powers were greater than ever (we know he's stayed long past his term limit, there's a couple of mentions of how his "emergency powers" are greater than ever) so no matter how much the Jedi didn't want to put Anakin on the Council or have the Chancellor interfere in their internal affairs, it sounds like they were literally unable to say no. Which is kind of like how the Propaganda book also tells us they were unable to say no about using the clones, that "they had no choice" (I suppose, other than just full scale secesssion, which would not have be good, either).
Because the Jedi don't harp on it and instead get down to work to do what they can as best they can, I think it slips by way too easily that they really didn't have a lot of options in this whole shit show.
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Lost Stars is on my too read list, but yeah seeing propaganda work so well is pretty chilling. And yeah, absolutely! These people have no idea how truly evil he is because he has hid it so well that even Jedi can be in the same room as him (and not just any Jedi, but the council and Yoda) and not see it. It does make me wonder at which point that image slipped, because by the time of Jedi people, even on Coruscant, celebrated his death.
Yeah, Palpatine had made himself so powerful that if they had said no to him there would have been repercussions. Palpatine could very easily have used it as more ammunition that they weren’t to be trusted. I really need to read the Propanda book properly, but even without that it’s obvious the Jedi were pushed into a corner with no real options.
And that makes me wonder what if the Jedi had suceeded in arresting or killing Palpatine, what the public backlash would have been against them. It wouldn’t have been as bad as order 66 of course, but they probably would have been diminished further
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But I would love to see more of it on Coruscant! We know they celebrated when he died, but what was the atmosphere like in the handful of years leading up to that? Most of the stories I can think of that deal with the time of his death (like Battlefront II's storyline) are from the POV of characters who wouldn't really give us an idea of that.
And that makes me wonder what if the Jedi had suceeded in arresting or killing Palpatine, what the public backlash would have been against them.
This is a great question! I think they would have gotten a tremendous amount of backlash. Dave Filoni has briefly talked about it a little, how Mace knew that he would be arrested for it, that even though he was doing the right thing, he would have probably gone to jail for it, and I think Mace and the others knew that, walking into Palpatine's office, that there was a good chance it wouldn't end well for them politically, but that it was still necessary and they were willing to sacrifice it, because leaving a Sith Lord in charge would have been worse.
For the Jedi as a whole, I think it would have been a huge hit to their credibility, because they were already being blamed for the war, they may well have taken a huge downgrade in the scope of their granted authority, but that there at least would have been a chance to heal, especially as evidence about Palpatine's true activities would come out. Without him there to protect them or stir the pot for them, it'd be a lot easier for Mon and Bail and Padme to actually get good legislature through, to investigate into Palpatine's connections to the Separatists, etc.
It would have been a shitshow, but a shitshow with a chance for better. And, honestly, I'm not sure the Jedi would mind so much. They were thoroughly SICK of war and fighting, even if they really wanted to help people, I think they all believed they were whiteknuckling their way through the war, and being forced to take a step back would be a relief, in some ways. They could finally, FINALLY focus on healing and ridding themselves of the constant dark side attacks on their psyches and take time to just be again.
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Yeah, that’s exactly the impression I get! So many of the books show worlds that the had the empire promise them so much and then turn on them. Planets like Wobani and Onderon come to mind off the top of my head, and the world Ashoka went to in here novel and the one from Jyn’s. And, of course, the awfulness of Kashyyyk.
(I’d love to read servants but have never been able to find it which sucks.)
That would be an interesting thing to see. Because Coruscant is the capital and would have the strongest propaganda you’d expect them not to be celebrating as much as they are. Clearly by that time Palpatine’s persona had been tarnished completely for that.
I love that the interludes in Aftermath give us some sense of what things are like on worlds like Coruscant at the time, but alas it’s all too brief.
And, on an unrelated not (well, semi related since it’s Coruscant). I just love that the new canon had Palpatine’s palace be the Jedi temple, I just think that was genius.
Thanks! Like I said I watched it recently so Such thoughts are in my head.
Yeah, we see how worse off things get with Palpatine in charge so we know it was worth the risk (just like they did). One think I do dislike about that scene is how quick the others are dispatched (especially Kit, I love kit). I know he caught them off guard but still...
Yeah that was my thinking too. I figured that the Jedi would lose authority at first, but the moment a full investigation reveals the truth, they’d gain credibility back. And yeah, can you imagine what the republic would have been with competent people like them in charge?
Yeah after the clone wars I think they would have loved to get their responsibilities diminished, back to just keeping the peace or even just meditating and teaching. Exactly! The war took such a toll on the Jedi, with the losses and the death (and some turning) that they would have longed for a chance to heal.
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Servants of the Empire is a bit of a tough read, I admit, the first one took me ages to finish because there was so very much time spent on space football and I got so bored during those parts. It picked up after that, but I lost a lot of momentum with them. (I have trouble with the YA books that aren't about movie-centric characters. This is why Join the Resistance has been languishing for me as well. If they'd just get audiobooks--!)
Do you know what I would really love to see more of? Aftermath touched on it a little (in a way that kind of made me sad), but I would love to know more about how Naboo fared under the Empire. We got a few glimpses during Leia: Princess of Alderaan when she went to visit Typho, but there wasn't really much from the perspective of the Naboo people. We know later they tore down statues of Palpatine and they ostracized Jar Jar because they blamed him for helping Palpatine's rise to power, but how did they fare during the Empire? I'd love to know!
Yeah after the clone wars I think they would have loved to get their responsibilities diminished, back to just keeping the peace or even just meditating and teaching.
It really seems like this what they were going for. They were in constant triage mode during the war, Jedi were dying in this war, in a way they never had before, the darkness was a constant press upon their psychic brains, and yet they really had no choice, because otherwise it meant trillions of people would suffer if they didn't. So, they were just trying to get through this war and that meant they slipped sometimes, they made mistakes, because I think the sheer weight of what was pressing down on them gets really underplayed sometimes.
In a better universe, that weight would have been lifted off them and they could go back to being hippie monks who liked to sit under waterfalls and feel the universe move around and through them. I think that's what they desperately wanted, to be able to back to just being able to breathe again, to heal and recover from all of this, to actually be able to stop and look around and take care of more subtle problems, because, FINALLY, EVERYTHING WASN'T ON FIRE FOR FIVE MINUTES NOW.
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Ahh that’s a shame, sometimes the YA books do get like that which is a shame. I read the first adventures in wild space and was a bit... eh on it, though I’m sure the others might be more interesting, I do wonder if the Ya books would be better suited to a release as a set or just put together in one big book.
That would be interesting to see. I love Naboo and I always squee a little when it shows up. (And I loved the whole Leia plot line there in Shattered empire! And Princess of Alderaan of course!)
Oh yeah, I totally agree with everything you said there, on top of that, they also get thrust into the military, being generals! That’s not a role non of them were prepared for. It’s amazing really that not more Jedi ended up turning during the war, because of all that stress and loss and pain.
Oh totally! They could have healed and recover, and even if they lost their trusted position that would have suited them because they would be left alone.
There’s a couple of episodes of the clone wars (as I recall) where it’s touched on that they miss their usual role and it always made me sad because we know they never get it.
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