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gffaღ - Now that Dark Lord of the Sith has finished and the holiday season business is winding down, it's time to get back to organizing + archiving some meta as best I can! And just being more social!
ღ - In that vein, I'm always looking for podcast recs, though, I often have trouble articulating what I like when I listen. Currently, my favorites are Oh No Ross and Carrie (a perpetual favorite, but I've been listening again and it's delightful as always, the hosts are such good spirited people and it's a great mix of skeptic investigation and just a good old time!) and Cold (a true crime podcast focused on the case of a woman who went missing and it's basically assumed the husband killed her, but since everyone is dead now, they can't really prove it, and it's pretty engrossing so far).
Now I'm curious what everyone else listens to!
ღ - DARTH VADER: DARK LORD OF THE SITH #1
Early issues weren't as thoroughly meta'd about as later issues will be, but that'll pick up around #5, which was when the series went from fun to great for me and really put the structure of it in place. Ie, that Anakin Skywalker was in deep denial no matter how hard the Force tried to scream in his face that he was doing this all wrong.
I have mixed feelings about this whole scene. On the one hand, the juxtaposition of showing the Empire saying the Jedi were evil and tyrannical is used to show that that’s a bunch of lies and propaganda, that what the Sith did to the Jedi was just that much more horrible. They’re literally taking these crystals, which Palpatine says are alive, and pouring pain into them until they bleed. They’re so cruel that they take innocent things, which were so vibrant and alive before, and hurt them to make them into weapons.
It's absolutely something the Empire and the Sith would do.
But it's also just so completely Over The Top Evil that I kind of roll my eyes at this becoming canon again. It was mentioned in the Ahsoka novel and now it’s been put into this comic, so it seems like it’s definitely something the storygroup approved of, but it’s just so... ham-fisted at times.
Idk, but maybe that’s the point, that the Empire is nothing but pain and anger that has consumed them, that that’s what happens when you become that selfish and uncaring of others. You hurt everyone and everything around you, you pour so much vicious anger and hate into it that you make it bleed.
[original post]
I REALLY LOVED THIS MOMENT. It’s the moment that makes the most sense with Vader’s character--he believes in the Empire, in bringing order to chaos, in making people do what’s necessary. Throughout the entirety of Star Wars, that has been central to understanding Vader and why he follows the Emperor, not just because he’s an evil person or a villain.
But because that has always been what Anakin Skywalker has believed. He has always wanted someone strong to follow who will bring order to the chaos of the galaxy.
And Palpatine knows exactly how to use it, what to say to make Vader fall in line again.
[original post]
I had a good chat with @fireflyfish about this issue and it clarified a lot of feelings I had about it. SPOILERS abound, of course!
I talked about the things I liked (Vader’s desire to follow and that Palpatine knew it + the creeping horror of what was done to the Jedi and the nature of anger and hate), but those were about the only two things I really found to talk about.
Because there’s not really much else to this first issue. It’s a series that’s about Vader’s early steps, the immediate aftermath of ROTS when he’s figuring himself out and his place in the galaxy. But we get absolutely nothing of what’s going on in his head–it’s difficult, I know! Gillen did a fantastic job and this series feels very much like it’s trying to echo that same sense of heavy, oppressive silence in Vader that worked so well for that series! It seems to be trying to capture the same feeling that Vader Down had, with that incredible scene of him in the desert, going after people he’s going to mow down!
But that Vader and this Vader are in very different places in their lives. This is a Vader who is going through a massive upheaval in his life, but we get nothing of what he’s thinking. We briefly see him think of Padme, when he was choking her, but Vader expresses no regret for his (presumed) role in her death. You would think, okay, he’s just been told by Sidious that he’s responsible for his wife’s death, “in your anger, you killed her”, that would be a major thing on his mind! But we get nothing of it. And nothing is mentioned of Padme at all after those first few pages.
Granted, it’s difficult to get into Vader’s head, especially a character that’s been burned to ash inside and out in this moment, so a novel maybe would have worked better for me. Except we already have Lords of the Sith, which came out in 2015, so it’s still Disney canon. But, hey, I get it, novels and comics aren’t really the same thing and they wanted this comic! I’m not opposed to going back over the same ground, especially on a character I like as much as I like Anakin Skywalker!
But I know nothing more about him after reading this issue than I did when I started. I know almost nothing of what he’s going through and when the whole point of the comic was supposed to be about the early days of Vader, that leaves me feeling pretty lackluster. I can see the point that he’s not really thinking much of anything, he’s sort of mindless with pain and grief, he’s just numb to everything but the cold that’s taken root in him. Of course he doesn’t say much, there’s nothing left in him at this point! But that doesn’t really work for a first issue, where you have to get me invested in this take on the character.
The art was nice, certainly above average for comics (the coloring was especially good looking!) but I can’t say it felt inspired or elevated the story beyond what feels like not much at all. It’s got some really great atmospheric shots (I liked the image of him walking out into the desert, as I’ve used above!), but it doesn’t tell me anything.
The comic is far from bad, I will absolutely be picking this up again next month! There’s potential here that I can see coming into focus and I very much hope that it picks up steam! But, as a first outing, it left me feeling underwhelmed.
[original post]
ღ - In that vein, I'm always looking for podcast recs, though, I often have trouble articulating what I like when I listen. Currently, my favorites are Oh No Ross and Carrie (a perpetual favorite, but I've been listening again and it's delightful as always, the hosts are such good spirited people and it's a great mix of skeptic investigation and just a good old time!) and Cold (a true crime podcast focused on the case of a woman who went missing and it's basically assumed the husband killed her, but since everyone is dead now, they can't really prove it, and it's pretty engrossing so far).
Now I'm curious what everyone else listens to!
ღ - DARTH VADER: DARK LORD OF THE SITH #1
Early issues weren't as thoroughly meta'd about as later issues will be, but that'll pick up around #5, which was when the series went from fun to great for me and really put the structure of it in place. Ie, that Anakin Skywalker was in deep denial no matter how hard the Force tried to scream in his face that he was doing this all wrong.
I have mixed feelings about this whole scene. On the one hand, the juxtaposition of showing the Empire saying the Jedi were evil and tyrannical is used to show that that’s a bunch of lies and propaganda, that what the Sith did to the Jedi was just that much more horrible. They’re literally taking these crystals, which Palpatine says are alive, and pouring pain into them until they bleed. They’re so cruel that they take innocent things, which were so vibrant and alive before, and hurt them to make them into weapons.
It's absolutely something the Empire and the Sith would do.
But it's also just so completely Over The Top Evil that I kind of roll my eyes at this becoming canon again. It was mentioned in the Ahsoka novel and now it’s been put into this comic, so it seems like it’s definitely something the storygroup approved of, but it’s just so... ham-fisted at times.
Idk, but maybe that’s the point, that the Empire is nothing but pain and anger that has consumed them, that that’s what happens when you become that selfish and uncaring of others. You hurt everyone and everything around you, you pour so much vicious anger and hate into it that you make it bleed.
[original post]
I REALLY LOVED THIS MOMENT. It’s the moment that makes the most sense with Vader’s character--he believes in the Empire, in bringing order to chaos, in making people do what’s necessary. Throughout the entirety of Star Wars, that has been central to understanding Vader and why he follows the Emperor, not just because he’s an evil person or a villain.
But because that has always been what Anakin Skywalker has believed. He has always wanted someone strong to follow who will bring order to the chaos of the galaxy.
And Palpatine knows exactly how to use it, what to say to make Vader fall in line again.
[original post]
I had a good chat with @fireflyfish about this issue and it clarified a lot of feelings I had about it. SPOILERS abound, of course!
I talked about the things I liked (Vader’s desire to follow and that Palpatine knew it + the creeping horror of what was done to the Jedi and the nature of anger and hate), but those were about the only two things I really found to talk about.
Because there’s not really much else to this first issue. It’s a series that’s about Vader’s early steps, the immediate aftermath of ROTS when he’s figuring himself out and his place in the galaxy. But we get absolutely nothing of what’s going on in his head–it’s difficult, I know! Gillen did a fantastic job and this series feels very much like it’s trying to echo that same sense of heavy, oppressive silence in Vader that worked so well for that series! It seems to be trying to capture the same feeling that Vader Down had, with that incredible scene of him in the desert, going after people he’s going to mow down!
But that Vader and this Vader are in very different places in their lives. This is a Vader who is going through a massive upheaval in his life, but we get nothing of what he’s thinking. We briefly see him think of Padme, when he was choking her, but Vader expresses no regret for his (presumed) role in her death. You would think, okay, he’s just been told by Sidious that he’s responsible for his wife’s death, “in your anger, you killed her”, that would be a major thing on his mind! But we get nothing of it. And nothing is mentioned of Padme at all after those first few pages.
Granted, it’s difficult to get into Vader’s head, especially a character that’s been burned to ash inside and out in this moment, so a novel maybe would have worked better for me. Except we already have Lords of the Sith, which came out in 2015, so it’s still Disney canon. But, hey, I get it, novels and comics aren’t really the same thing and they wanted this comic! I’m not opposed to going back over the same ground, especially on a character I like as much as I like Anakin Skywalker!
But I know nothing more about him after reading this issue than I did when I started. I know almost nothing of what he’s going through and when the whole point of the comic was supposed to be about the early days of Vader, that leaves me feeling pretty lackluster. I can see the point that he’s not really thinking much of anything, he’s sort of mindless with pain and grief, he’s just numb to everything but the cold that’s taken root in him. Of course he doesn’t say much, there’s nothing left in him at this point! But that doesn’t really work for a first issue, where you have to get me invested in this take on the character.
The art was nice, certainly above average for comics (the coloring was especially good looking!) but I can’t say it felt inspired or elevated the story beyond what feels like not much at all. It’s got some really great atmospheric shots (I liked the image of him walking out into the desert, as I’ve used above!), but it doesn’t tell me anything.
The comic is far from bad, I will absolutely be picking this up again next month! There’s potential here that I can see coming into focus and I very much hope that it picks up steam! But, as a first outing, it left me feeling underwhelmed.
[original post]
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 05:05 pm (UTC)I find it interesting that you say you know almost nothing about what's going on in Vader's mind, because I found the art and lack of responses so evocative.
Like that page showing the desert through biological eyes, then through his helmet, and finally we see his figure going through the desert? I felt so alienated and disembodied and alone. I also loved it because it made *me* feel melancholy, but I can also understand that Anakin's main emotion is slow-boil rage. I especially love the detail of contrasting the different views because it drives home how much for him has changed.
This exchange SLAYS me:
"It is... acceptable." AHDKJAHDKFJAHSDFKJH. I WANT TO KNOW SO MUCH MORE. Is he being honest? I'm betting he is. Something about the closeup on his face-- not a face-- is upsetting. He's lost everything, including his body, and that's what he can muster? He should be devastated (for more than two minutes)! How dead is he inside to find it "acceptable"? How is ANYTHING about that suit acceptable?
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 08:22 pm (UTC)I think this is at least part of what I mentioned before--or at least related to it--where Dark Lord of the Sith seemed like a standard, paint-by-the-numbers comic to me at first. It seemed like a chance for Vader to be badass, for him to go through the motions of getting a new kyber crystal, etc. That it wasn't until I was five issues in that I started seeing the structure of the story as a framing device for Anakin's choices and his inability to face them. That once I saw that, I could never see the comic as anything else.
But when I read issue #1 without any of the stuff that came later, I was definitely just sort of, "Eh, it's all right, I think!" about it.
Giving the issue a quick skimming over again, I find that Vader's silence speaks more to me, that there's something really aching about them. Knowing where this comic is going and the examination of Anakin Skywalker's psychology, I can trust that, yes, it is meant to show that he's in a confused and angry place right now, he's directionless and adrift. He doesn't say anything because he doesn't know what to say. He's lost everything--Padme, Obi-Wan, the Jedi, Ahsoka, everyone he knew, even the gentle facade of his friend Palpatine--and so he says nothing. What can he say? There's nothing.
And I typed all that up before going back to the moment just after the above scene and:
"Are you at a loss, my friend? Take heart. Your path is simple."
He should be devastated (for more than two minutes)! How dead is he inside to find it "acceptable"? How is ANYTHING about that suit acceptable?
It really is a fascinating look on how desperately Anakin wants to die, but can't admit that he wants to die. Even in the moment after Sidious tells him that Padme's dead, even when Vader wakes up to everything on fire and having been lost, even when all that's left is pain and rage, he still keeps getting back up. He still finds things "acceptable", not because they're good or what he wanted, but because he doesn't care about any of it anymore. All that's left is that this is his destiny.
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 09:19 pm (UTC)PALPATINE IS ALL HE HAS LEFT. AND HE'S FEEDING HIM THIS NIGHTMARE FUEL AT THE START OF HIS NEW LIFE. Anakin's choices are his own. BUT. THIS DIDN'T HELP.
(Great question for an AU-- what if Yoda & Obi-Wan had gotten Anakin back just as he entered his suit? Could've Vader been redirected then?)
It really is a fascinating look on how desperately Anakin wants to die, but can't admit that he wants to die.
I realize this is an entire meta essay on its own, but why do you think Anakin doesn't want to die/never tries to kill himself more directly than by flinging himself into perilous situations?
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 09:34 pm (UTC)If they were isolated from the bigger galaxy, maybe. But they're not capable of ignoring that he murdered those children and, while they would have accepted him back, had he turned, Obi-Wan certainly was trying during their duel to get Anakin to back down, Anakin couldn't admit that it was wrong.
And I think that's why he can't admit he wants to die, either. To admit that would mean looking at why he wanted to die--not just the loss of everyone and everything he loved, but that it was from his own actions and it was his own fault. If he admits that he has nothing, then the dark side wasn't worth it, betraying the Jedi wasn't worth it, killing the children wasn't worth it, trying to save Padme by forcing her to live wasn't worth it. And he can't admit that, it's too big, it's too much. He can't even face smaller things, how could he face all that?
But also I think there's just a lot of hate and rage in him that keeps him wanting to lash out at anything that's within range. He wants to die, but he also wants to kill everything. He's the most special ever, nothing can kill him. He's the angriest ever, the people around him deserve what he dishes out. He just... can't let go, no matter how much it hurts him to keep suffering like this.
At least that's how I see him and how I think this series wrote him!
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 10:14 pm (UTC)As for podcasts I’m listening to three currently.
Welcome To Night Vale - Which is about a radio station in a weird desert community where strange stuff happens
Dreamboy - this one is... hard to describe since it’s only just started. The official description is better than anything I could come up with
Sappenin - A podcast that’s interviews with various band members, which again is fairly new. But Sean, the presenter who was in a band called The Blackout , is always fun to hear
I’ve not read this series yet (I have been doing better at reading my comics! I have read the original Vader series some and gave some thoughts here) so I’m going by what you’re saying.
I agree on that first scene you mention. It just seems so... well, like you say ham fisted a bit. I think that’s the point, that it’s all a show for the public, but it is so awful seeing those sabers go
That’s so true. It’s clear that’s something Anakin wants by what he says to Padme in AOTC, he plays it off as a joke at the time but it’s obvious that’s what he believes.
no subject
Date: 2018-12-29 12:20 am (UTC)I don't often go for horror stories types of podcasts, but if you like those, Alice Isn't Dead and The Magnus Archives might be relevant to your interests!
Looking back, it definitely took me time to warm up to this comic and how it felt ham-fisted at the time, but I think--having now read the whole thing--that approach works, because the Empire itself wasn't subtle and Vader himself is a blunt weapon rather than anything more subtle. The Empire coming down on the Jedi like a ton of bricks, this entire story being a reflection of Vader, yeah, it works for me!
Anakin has always had fascist leanings, it's part of what makes him such an interesting character. He doesn't mean to be cruel or hurt others, but his own desires always seem to be more important than looking around at what other people say and want, in any meaningful way. Oh, he wants them to be happy, he cares about them very much, he hurts when they hurt! But ultimately he wants the galaxy to be his way and he always has.
no subject
Date: 2018-12-29 01:26 am (UTC)I need to finish up Alice Isn’t Dead! I listened to most of the first series but didn’t finish it. Magnus archives sounds interesting, I’ve added it to my to listen lists.
Yeah the empire is most definitely not subtle. You’re very much right there about the empire and Vader.
That’s so very well said, you have such a great understanding of him!
no subject
Date: 2018-12-29 02:25 am (UTC)Thank you for the kind words, I'm glad my view of Anakin works for you! I've certainly spent enough time thinking about that garbage bag to have at least a strong view of him. ^_~
And I enjoyed reading your thoughts on Darth Vader vol 1 and will be curious to see how you feel about more comics in the future! ♥
no subject
Date: 2018-12-29 11:39 am (UTC)Heee Well like I said, you get him so well!
Thanks! I read the second Vader volume after doing that and I’m gonna read Vader Down after reading the Star Wars issues leading to it. But there was a lot to love in it.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-01 11:24 am (UTC)With The Magnus Archives I like them, because the episodes are pretty short (I want to say 15-20 minutes at most? for the majority of them) and they're self-contained in the beginning, so they're easy to pick up or put down, depending on how you feel.
You know, once upon a time, I felt like Darth Vader was overdone as a character, but I really think having Anakin Skywalker's backstory and seeing that character under the mask, has really helped me find him more interesting? That and the story being REALLY SUPER CLEAR "no, this guy may be a badass and terrifying, but he is also a pathetic monster you're supposed to pity". THAT IS MY JAM.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-01 11:59 am (UTC)I get what you mean, sometimes horror stuff doesn’t quite work when you can’t see what’s going on.
Short is always good! I’m gonna try listening one morning, but I haven’t had chance yet hee.
Yeah that’s all true! The thing for me is, I never found him all that scary as a villain in the OT, partly because he was more likely to kill a subordinate than anyone else. The last scene of him in Rogue One is the scariest he’s been in the films I think.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-02 02:58 am (UTC)I think I found Vader scary as a villain in the OT, but I never really had any feelings about him, he was just sort of a blank slate to me. I was far more interested in Luke and Leia, their relationship with him was interesting to me only in how they felt about him.
It took the prequels + The Clone Wars, but most especially Revenge of the Sith for me to have feelings about Anakin Skywalker for himself. And even then I really didn't care that much about the Vader parts of his life until this comic and all the connections it drew between Vader and Anakin, so that they were inseparable in my mind. We've always known it, of course, but this comic really did the heavy lifting of showing Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker, forever and ever, and so it drew all these things together.
While I don't find Vader as terrifying in the OT (partly because he never really hurts people on the same level as Anakin did to children in the PT and that hallway scene in Rogue One) what I love about this comic is that it's the pathetic monster of the OT and the depressed idiot who made all the wrong choices of the PT and that scary bastard from Rogue One. He is all of those things in this comic and I think that's why I'm suddenly a thousand percent more interested in Vader than I ever was because of this series.
Yeah, sure, a lot of things were really cool about this comic, lots of good structure and gorgeous art and badass moments! But the psychology of Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker, in showing how he is all of those things at once, is the most intensely cool thing about it.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-02 09:41 pm (UTC)It sounds like the comic has gotten his character so well to be all those things!
no subject
Date: 2019-01-04 07:01 am (UTC)In other words: Take all my enthusiasm with a grain of salt, a lot of what got me is that the comic hit my iddy wants just perfect and gave me what I was craving, so I was always going to be over the moon for it. XD
no subject
Date: 2019-01-04 10:05 am (UTC)Oh of course! I get that
no subject
Date: 2018-12-31 09:36 am (UTC)There's a new community for Star Wars meta I stumbled across on this site recently...it's only got a few posts so far, but I think your posts would be an amazing addition. You always bring a ton of interesting insight to the material that I find fascinating to read. https://starwars-meta.dreamwidth.org/ <--- if you want to check it out.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-01 11:33 am (UTC)And, in return, let me say that I love when you meta on things as well, your response about how the Jedi were acting as a military and what that means was fantastic, it was such a satisfying read! You expressed things beautifully and I could read the case you were building as well, how you came to the conclusions you did!
Ooh, that meta comm looks interesting, I'll check it out, thanks! ♥